S1E4 - Pictures & Pages Q&A with Kate Chisholm on Publishing Children's Books

Welcome to Pictures & Pages with Amy Freund, a Kelly's Writerly Q&A Podcast spin-off series that takes you behind the scenes of the Australian publishing industry!

Listen to Amy's 4th episode where she chats to Publishing Director for Children’s books, Kate Chisholm. 

This episode is all about: The role of the publisher.

• What does a publisher look for in a manuscript? 
• How involved is a publisher in the book creation process? 
• And how do trends affect a publishing program? 

To answer these questions and more, we’re joined by publisher, Kate Chisholm. Kate’s career has spanned the full publishing spectrum – from print to audio, commercial titles to educational textbooks. A lifelong lover of art, Kate has always had a soft spot for children’s books, and is now the Publishing Director at Five Mile, with a focus on picture books and book plus product.

Whether you're pitching your first book or wanting to understand more about what a publisher does, this episode is packed with important information you won’t want to miss.

Thank you for listening!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Pictures and Pages, a podcast that takes you behind the scenes of the Australian publishing industry. I'm your host, Amy Freund, author, freelance editor, and tea lover. Each month I interview a different publishing professional, from designers and editors to illustrators, marketeers and agents, shining a light on what it really takes to make books a reality. This episode is all about the role of a publisher. What does a publisher look for in a manuscript? How involved is a publisher in the book creation process? And how do trends affect a publishing program?

Meet Kate Chisholm

SPEAKER_01 0:40

To answer these questions and more, we're joined by publisher Kate Chisholm. Kate's career has spanned the full publishing spectrum, from printer audio, commercial titles to educational textbooks. A lifelong lover of art, Kate has always had a soft spot for children's books and is now the publishing director at FiveMile with a focus on picture books and book plus product.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

So welcome Kate to Pictures and Pages. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Thanks for asking me.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

So I'd love to know what is the

A publisher's main role

SPEAKER_02 1:13

publisher's main role in a publishing house?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

It's probably very different across different publishing houses. Although I'm the publishing director, I'm just sort of one piece of the puzzle. So we collaborate a lot on all our titles. So we'll have lots of meetings and you know really decide, I guess, how we want to represent the brand. So like my part in the process is more overseeing the picture book. So I might read a lot of manuscripts and bring them to the attention of the rest of the team, and then we'll decide what makes it through. So I guess we're collectively building a vision for the list, and it's really a team sport. So I might get the ball rolling, but it really is a team sport. There's about five of us who will decide on what we ultimately publish, and then my role is to collaborate with the authors and the illustrators and the designers to achieve the vision. And I would also say that our buyers give us a lot of good feedback too. So, you know, altogether we're building this brand, this publishing list. But my role is really sort of reading the manuscripts at the beginning and then overseeing the production of the books and just a lot of collaboration.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Can you take us through sort of a typical

The day of a publisher

SPEAKER_02 2:40

day in the life of a publisher?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

A typical day is a lot of emails and uh deadlines, and then more emails and more deadlines. I always feel like I'm like a time traveler who's living in the past, the present, and the future because I'm sort of overseeing so many products. Some of them are finished and at the printer, but there could be issues with them once they've got to the printer. And then I'm working on the current list, the books that we're trying to get to the printer in the present. And then if there's some time left in the day, thinking about future books, you know, reading manuscripts, editing manuscripts, briefing illustrators, you know, deciding on the look and feel of future products. But a lot of it is, you know, past and present books, and and I wish there was more time to really, you know, uh think about the the future titles, you know. But we get there in the end, but it's always like very frantic. Lots of emails and deadlines in the meantime.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yes, I think it's a very similar story for a lot of those independent publishers we have in Australia because we're such small teams. And I think that's what's so great to sort of see from the inside because sometimes as an author we're not sure just what is across every person's table. So it's good to hear that, yeah, literally every person in the house is kind of across the book from start to finish.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

What does your role

Kate's role

SPEAKER_02 4:13

involve across the life cycle of a book from acquisitions to sort of that launch and post-launch?

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Um, well, I'll play a big role in the beginning, you know, reading lots of manuscripts. Um, but I also try to read all of that, the majority of unsolicited manuscripts. But a lot of the time I'm also dealing with, you know, current authors or past authors who resubmit new material or authors that I, you know, I've contacted through the unsolicited pile and I've, you know, I've got a connection with. And, you know, it might not be the first manuscript that they send me, it might be the second, third, fourth, or fifth. Yeah, so reading a lot of manuscripts, and then once we've decided as a team what we're going to uh take forward, then it's choose, you know, looking at a lot of illustrators, choosing illustrators, um, deciding on the look and feel, and then relaying that brief to the designer as well. And then the book, you know, goes into production, then there's other rounds of feedback, you know, the whole team pictures in, present it to buyers, they might have extra feedback, and then finally getting the book to print. But like I said earlier, um, that's just really, you know, the picture book list is just one part of my job because we're a small team and we're all across each other's work. So we're, you know, I'm collaborating on my colleagues' work and pitches as well. We're always pitching different presentations to different buyers. So there's a lot involved besides actually reading manuscripts. I don't get nearly enough time to actually read manuscripts.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Yes. So with that as well and these submissions, what

The acquisitions process

SPEAKER_02 5:58

does that selection process look like? And what do you find makes a manuscript stand out for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:04

I guess because I do try to read so many that like certain ones jump out. So I do look for something that's uh a bit different. I might read an amazing manuscript, but we've just recently published a book with the same themes, and that does happen a lot, maybe the same type of character or the same themes or the same message, or you know, something similar to what we've done before. So then I will sometimes reach out to the author and say, Look, I love this, but we've just published a book like it. What else have you got? Um, so I do that quite often. Um, so I'm looking for writing talent, even more bonus points if the creator is a writer and illustrator, because then they're like a package deal. But that's not always necessary. Um, we can always match authors with illustrators. So just looking for writing talent and something that's really fun or funny, or you know, something that is quite snappy, has a lot of energy to it. It's really hard to tell because then we do sometimes do more gentle, quiet manuscripts, if you like. Again, it's like about trying to achieve a balance in the list. So, what have we done in the last six months? What do we want to see more of? What have buyers told us that they're looking for, you know? So it's juggling all these balls. And honestly, there's so much talent out there, and I read so many good manuscripts that we just can't publish, but it's not because they're bad. Um, and I'm telling people all this all the time because there's so many manuscripts that we could literally publish tomorrow. There's nothing wrong with them, they're they're nice stories, they're they'd be enjoyable to read to children, but for one reason or another, it just doesn't tick all the boxes that we're looking to achieve. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Yeah, and I think that's um a really interesting point actually on the book market in Australia and the reality of the book industry. I think we've got quite a truncated industry now with all of the different companies that have closed down over even since you know, I sort of started in I think 2015 to now, which isn't really that long, but really you can see the market has really shifted.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yeah, and with that, uh when you're talking about maybe what the buyer wants to see, are there

Trends

SPEAKER_02 8:31

trends that you've noticed that they're falling in and out of at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 8:36

So I suppose when I started in this role as publishing director, we were looking for, you know, bold colours and you know, books that were sort of very colourful and graphic maybe and would appear appeal to mass market, but now illustration has sort of shifted back to something more soft and gentle and you know, the kind of I guess a bit nostalgic and traditional picture book illustration. But you know, soon that will be done and we'll go back to, you know, either bold colours or something else. So it's always shifting at the moment. We're obviously in the in the book trade we're seeing the influence of like cozy colouring kind of products that's been huge for the past year, but will it still be around in six months? You know, we we'll have to wait and see. So there's always trends that we're juggling and considering, but you know, it's sometimes sometimes you can be right on it and respond to a trend very quickly and capitalise on it. But sometimes, you know, you're creating something, and by the time you've you've adapted to a new trend, it's kind of played out in the market. So you don't want to be too slavish to trends, and I think we're just we've got we've got our own goals that are separate to trends anyway. Um, something that we look for in picture books that's quite separate from trends, which is just, you know, a good story, well told, beautiful illustrations, um, satisfying conclusion, you know, and some fun and laughs along the way, hopefully. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

And um actually wanted to ask

The element of 'magic'

SPEAKER_02 10:20

you a bit on that about, you know, they always talk about this element of magic that needs to happen in order to sort of get your book to stand out and actually get your book to publication. Is there sort of something that you see that you go, that's the magic, or is it just really hard to tell like you have to assess every manuscript individually?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

It's a bit tricky because sometimes I do come across something that I think is magical. But I think to myself, I just don't know if I'll be able to get this across the line. Is it a bit too weird? Is it a bit too unsuited for mass market? Because I guess as you know, we have to make all these decisions, and yes, sometimes there is something magical, but I have to pass up on it because I think I'm not quite sure everyone's gonna get on board with this. It's a bit too weird and wonderful. Look, it it's it's really hard because if we had, if we were able to publish 50 picture books a year, you'd see a lot more uh range in the kinds of books that we can publish. But the reality is we're publishing about 12 picture books a year. Um, and then the rest of our products are sort of like books plus or colour and activity or licensed products. So, so yeah, when it comes down to when you're trying to pick 12 picture books for the year, um, you do have to be quite uh strategic in how you balance the list, and there's a lot of moving parts, and sometimes um it might also be well, we love this manuscript, but you know, we want a particular illustrator for it, or this kind of style, and then they're not available for six months, and so a particular title gets pushed back, and then something else comes forward, and yeah, it's a lot of moving parts.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

So many moving parts. How

Illustration

SPEAKER_02 12:14

do you approach illustration? Do you pair authors and illustrators normally together?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah, yeah. So um, after we decide on a manuscript, I'll go out and look at illustrators that are represented by agencies quite often, but I also have met a lot of illustrators and used a lot of illustrators who have submitted through the unsolicited manuscripts portal. So that's something for people to know out there that we do also accept submissions from illustrators. I try and use local illustrations like Australian illustrators wherever possible, but it's not always possible due to availability or budget or you know, loads of different things. So then we'll reach out to some agencies if we're after a particular look and feel for a particular manuscript. But yeah, I really enjoy matching authors and illustrators, finding the right illustrator for the manuscript. And then sometimes our creators are authors and illustrators, and that's um bonus points, like I said, because it's just very easy to deal with one creator.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

From that

Timeframe

SPEAKER_02 13:20

sort of acquisition of the book until final publication, how long is that typical time frame?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Oh, that's really hard to say, and it would be very different at other publishing houses, but because we're a small team and you know, quite agile sometimes, might have to move a project back and bring another forward. We can sometimes, you know, complete a project in, you know, six months, but sometimes more typically it might be a year or 18 months. And it really just depends on illustrators more than the authors, because once the author has delivered the manuscript or submitted the manuscript, it's kind of done from their perspective. Apart from a bit of tweaking and checking the you know, rounds of pages as they come through, their role is kind of done. Um, but it's really down to illustrators, their availability, when they can schedule a project, how long they take to complete a project. Also, sometimes we time the release of books for particular times of year. For example, we've got one coming up in July which has a PJ Day theme, and you know, there's a PJ Day in July and August, so we've we've kind of timed it for that. That's just one example. Yeah, so it can vary wildly from six months to 18 months.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

And how do you collaborate

Sales and marketing

SPEAKER_02 14:40

with sales marketing and your distribution team to ensure that book success, sort of once it's ready to go?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

As I said before, we're a small team, so we are quite close contact with each other and we meet once a week. We we mostly work from home, but we meet once a week to discuss everything. So at those weekly meetings, we do collaborate on all our projects, and then we talk quite a lot with our buyers and distributors. So yeah, it's it's just very um very small team in close contact quite regularly.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

I think that's a great thing to note as well, is all these teams they might sound separate on the page, but really everyone is working together, probably in most places, to create the success for each individual book.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Yeah, and the authors, obviously, authors and illustrators do a lot on social media themselves, and then you know, sometimes we'll do a special campaign, but really a lot of the battle is getting the products into stores. So once they're in stores, then they're available for everyone to see. Um, so the big battle we have is just trying to get the books out there, but we've been able to do that quite well, especially the last year, getting books into out into the marketplace and yeah, getting people excited about them.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Exactly. That's what it's all about, isn't it? Just getting the books in the hands of the kids so that they can enjoy. Yeah, that's it. And um, I've got

Current trends

SPEAKER_02 16:15

one last question for you. Now, I know we've sort of spoken about trends or shifts already, but is there anything that's currently shaping your decisions for the next 12 months?

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Look, to be honest, the last 12 months have been such a whirlwind that you know we're we're still kind of reacting to what's happening in the market at the moment and how we think things are going. As I mentioned earlier, like this year has there's been a big trend with cozy colouring and like quite nostalgic of you know traditional illustration styles and things like that. But whether that continues into the year ahead, I'm not sure. So I think I'd be looking to do something a bit different with the picture books that we contract um for the year ahead. That's a nice, I guess, a complementary but different to what we've published in the last 12 months, which when I say the last 12 months, I mean the last 12 months are books that I've worked on that will be coming out in the next six months. And they've all got that lovely nostalgic feel and um sort of classic old-fashioned illustrations and things like that. Um, not always, but there's quite a lot of that kind of content. So maybe I'll be looking for something that's in reaction to that, something that's a bit more bold and graphic.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

And my very, very last question, I know I said that one was my last time, but

Submission tips

SPEAKER_02 17:41

for any authors, illustrators, or combination of both looking to submitting or even getting their work out there into the big live world, what advice would you give them about how to position themselves so then they've got a great chance of being found amongst the submission? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Well, it is very difficult as we've touched on. Like Australia has a small book market, uh, you know, comparatively. We are always looking for sort of uni titles that have a universal kind of uh flavor. But what I would suggest is still submitting through the traditional routes, but build your online presence so that you know, if you do submit in that way, I can also go online and look at you know your social media or a website or something else you might have done just to get a feel. And quite often, if if someone submits a good manuscript which which isn't right for our list, I will reach out to them and say, what else have you got or what else have you done? Um, and you know, sometimes discover things that way. But yeah, it if you can make it easy for us when we're considering unsolicited manuscripts by having a social media profile, that's great. Having said that, I have attracted manuscripts that I think are just wonderful and the person hasn't had a big online presence. It's not a deal breaker, but it just gives us more of an idea of an author's identity and what kind of works they might create and you know what they're doing. So that's really helpful.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Kate. I've learned so much. So thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Thank you, Amy. Always a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Thank you for listening to the Pictures and Pages podcast. Stay tuned for the next episode where I'll be interviewing another publishing professional. See you soon.