S2E8 July 2026 Q&A with Kim Ulrick on Bad People

Welcome to Kelly's Writerly Q&A, a podcast that celebrates authors and their books! I'm your host, Kelly Sgroi, writer, reader, and soccer mum.

Listen to my 31st episode where I chat to Kim Ulrick, an award-winning writer and author of two supernatural crime novels inspired by her life experiences growing up in the country and working with law enforcement and national agencies. Bad People is a gripping read that came out with Contempo Publishing in March!

We discuss:

• When we met and the different paths we've taken
• Bad People
• Ageing up characters
• Icons
• Post-publication day blues
• Playlists

And more!

Thank you for listening!

Music credit to Levgen Poltavskyi from Pixabay.

*If you enjoy this podcast, please like, share, follow, and consider buying a copy of the book using my Booktopia affiliate link or buy me a Ko-fi. Your support, big or small, will help cover hosting and production costs, and keep me creating and supporting authors and books!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

You're listening to Kelly's Riderly QA, a monthly podcast that features authors and their books. Kelly Scroy is your host, writer, reader, and soccer.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

This is season two, episode eight of Kelly's Brighterly QA, and I'd like to extend a warm welcome back

Welcome back Kim Ulrick

SPEAKER_02 0:22

to Kim Ulrich, an award-winning writer and author of two supernatural crime novels inspired by your life experiences growing up in the country and working with law enforcement and national agencies. Bad People is a gripping read that came out with Contempo Publishing in March. Congratulations. How are you today?

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Thanks, Kelly, and hello to you from Albany in Western Australia. So I'm at the public library. I'm travelling around Australia at the moment, which I can talk about later if you want. And the library here has been absolutely brilliant. And I have to say, it's a fantastic library. I wish I had this at Maria or Naruma. But yeah, so that's where I am today. So it's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Very cool. I love the set. Like it looks very professional there.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

It is, it's very nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

So

On our manuscripts that didn't sell

SPEAKER_02 1:17

we met when we were agent buddies and had a fabulous chat back in November 2024. So that's season one, episode 22. If anyone wants to check it out and learn about your writing process and how we both had books that didn't sell. How do you feel?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah, I I can understand where you're coming from with that. For me, I felt like the second book that we'll talk about soon, Bad People, was a bit of an evolution from the first, Bad Country. And I didn't get picked up by big name publishers, which, you know, it's just the way it is. But I am glad that I got it out there because I think the story was ready from my perspective. And it sort of set the tone of the type of story that I was going to continue into with bad people. But I understand what you're saying. And you know, now if you look back at feedback and things that you've received on your submissions, then you you might go, Oh, maybe that was a good thing. Maybe there's, you know, there was a need for me to recast this in a way that was more aligned to my own brand and the type of stories I want to tell.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yeah, definitely. I have changed in genre since then. So for me, it's definitely a relief, but your second novel really followed on nicely from the first. So it's an interesting look at both of our journeys, how we kind of we met with that common ground, and then we've both taken different parts. So good to like check back in on that.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yeah, yeah. And I think in the end, that the journey that you take and the journey that I take, in the end, will be right for us. And I think you just have to almost have faith in the universe that that's the way it's meant to be, and there is a reason for it. And you know, I sound very insane this morning, but you know, that's I think you've just got to have faith sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Got a bit of Laura in you with that extent.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Probably, yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

But no, I do, I'm a very gut-driven person. I just plod along, happy to go at a slow pace. But if something really gets in my head or my gut, that's when I'll I'll follow that breadcrumb and see where it takes me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

No, I think that's the way to go. That's the way I still do things. With the second book, I knew I had a clear direction of where I wanted to sort of go with it, but a bit more than even in the first one, in terms of there was more planning involved. But there were still little twists that sort of evolved as I wrote it, and you know, just let that come out.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Beautiful. So thanks officially for taking time to answer some more writerly questions and stopping in at the library while you're caravanning around. And also thank

What's Bad People about?

SPEAKER_02 4:23

you for providing me with a copy of Bad People. I have had the pleasure of reading it and it's so authentic. I think that you are the master at writing about law enforcement with a twist. You can use that tagline if you like. Um, for anyone who hasn't heard of it, how would you describe it?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Okay, so I would say that it is a gritty Australian crime thriller. If you like stories by people like Chris Hemmer or Candace Fox or even Jane Harper, it's probably in my mind it's in that sort of vein. But basically, it follows on from the first book. So Laura Murray, who's the female main character, is now a dog handler with New South Wales Police, and she goes into a task force searching for missing women. It gets into some heavy issues. So in in my mind, I was drawing on my understanding of how sort of organised crime groups operate, how fluid they are, and the fact that even human beings in the end are a commodity that's up for sale. So it's sort of it gets into quite dark stuff, to be honest. But I wanted to sort of show how the police law enforcement are sort of working to try and bring these women home to their families, to their loved ones, and then the sort of risks they're putting themselves in in that process.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yeah, it starts with a very dark prologue.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yeah, it does start. It it pretty much from the very first page of reading, you know what you're in for.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Yeah. Yeah. But you did such a good job of building the suspense and keeping me guessing who were the bad people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yeah, so there is a traitors. So there is a there is someone within the task force, and they have to work out who that is or who this traitor is in the book. And a bit like with the first book, I use multiple points of view to sort of from different characters to sort of bring that along and give the reader a little different insight into each of those characters and what they're thinking and and you know how the story is evolving and the plots going.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Definitely kept me turning the pages. But this book is a follow-up to bad

On ageing up characters

SPEAKER_02 6:32

country, but can be read as a standalone. Yeah. And you've aged your characters up. So how did you find it switching from YA to adult fiction?

SPEAKER_01 6:44

It actually wasn't too hard because I would describe bad country sort of upper young adult. Laura in that was 18, and now she's sort of five years or so down the track. And as I mentioned, because there are sort of fairly serious issues that this book is dealing with, it felt appropriate that she was a more mature young woman, and she you're sort of with her on her journey of continuing to, you know, accept who she is, but also forge her career and also be vulnerable to love as well. So you're sort of seeing her growing up, and I think it's a bit similar to I wouldn't compare myself to JK Rowling ever, but you know, the Harry Potter series where you know the readers were younger at the beginning of the stories, and as the stories go along, they've gotten older, and those stories at the end were actually quite dark.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

So yeah, that's a good uh comparison, actually.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

So yeah, I found it quite easy and it felt natural to me, and it felt right considering what I was writing about.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

But both still feature death. Yes. But you would say that bad country, I think I remember loving how you could give it to a young reader without worrying about content warnings too much. That bad people is definitely inappropriate for anyone under 18.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Definitely, definitely. And and I deliberately put trigger warnings at the front of the book for that reason. Yeah. Because, you know, I I thought if someone was say 16 or 17 when they read the first one and they're now 18, that would be okay. Yeah. Um, but like you, I wouldn't hand it to anyone who's sort of under 18.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Icons

SPEAKER_02 8:29

So on characters, there's also some distinct icons at the start of each chapter, which I loved. Oh, thank you. Because it kind of signaled to me, okay, I mean that person's point of view, because I'd see the icon and I related it straight away to each character. So can you tell me about those?

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yeah, so funnily enough, my daughter actually reads a lot of romance and romanticity and fantasy, and she does her own little reviews of all that online. But she she's one of my beta readers, so she reads everything. And she came back to me and she said, and originally I was doing it like that country, so I had the names of each of the characters against those chapters, and she said, Oh, you know what works really well? I think if you could have an icon that represents the character, and I said, I'd never thought of that. So it was actually her idea, and then I did that and I thought that actually really works. I really love it. Because for me, it was like a visual, like he said, connection for the reader. And you know, it also reinforces that a little bit about that character. But was funny when I went to my developmental editor, he said, take it out. And I said, Oh, why? And he said, Oh, I just don't like them sort of thing. And anyway, I I sort of went, Okay, I'll consider that. So I kept them in, took it to my publisher, Fiona, and she said, she said, No, I love them. And I said, Excellent, we're leaving them in then. Yeah, I love them too.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

I'm so glad you left them in.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yeah, yeah. So sometimes you know, you're talking about following your gut. I really didn't want to take those out. And I went, no, I'm gonna leave it in, I'm gonna check with the publisher, see what she thinks. And we both agreed, and I went, yes, a win.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, and that

On following your gut and knowing the story you want to tell

SPEAKER_02 10:13

actually let's just talk about that because that's something that takes time to develop, knowing who you are as an author and what you're trying to write about, because you can get feedback from friends, beta readers, editors, wherever you are in your journey, and often, and this is how I think where things went wrong with my manuscript that didn't sell, I got confused.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

And I took advice about how it could be marketed rather than just following the story that I wanted to tell.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Yeah, yeah. I think that's a really, really important and valid point that you've just made. And a lot of the times, you know, I will take on 90 odd percent of what I get as feedback because particularly where it's from someone who, you know, I really respect their views. So I'm part of a Euribadella authors group as well as ACT writers and even Queensland writers. And our Euribidella Authors Group, a bit like others, we we share parts of our work as it's progressing and critique it and get it back. And that's really, really, really useful. And I value and trust the feedback I'm getting from those people because we've built those relationships. But sometimes when you go to someone and they just it just doesn't feel right, you're sort of like, oh, like the whole thing with the icons, I thought I actually had really got invested in them. Like I thought felt like they really helped the storytelling and that gave it a bit of a point of difference. Yeah. And so when you know the editor said, Oh, I I think they're and they may be a bit distracting, get rid of them, I don't really like them. I just went, okay, I'll consider it. So, you know, because it I'm still you're still the author. In the end, it's your story. So, you know, you you obviously need to listen to the feedback you're getting, but if it doesn't feel right in your gut, follow it. And you know, like you said, keep focusing on telling the story. And the marketing is to me, it's the hardest part of this whole thing. And I find it at times a bit exhausting because I don't, you know, I don't think I'm that green at it at times, but you know, and there's so many chonky buddy promoters out there trying to take money off you. But leave the marketing, you know, like you've got to think about it, but just get your story right first. Get your story right and get it right for you for the story that you want to tell. And that's what I'm doing with this next one, Shame the Stars, because it's historical sort of romance, but it's inspired by my grandparents. So there's you know, there's a lot of information that I'm sort of getting from my dad, for example, about his life growing up and what my grandparents were like when they were younger. And I did video interviews with them and I'm drawing on that sort of information, so it's not a memoir, but I'm just sort of using that as inspiration. And I think you know, you've just got to tell the story that's important to you. And this one's taking me a while because it's personally very important.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Yeah, yeah. And I like what you said about just considering the feedback before you made the decision. Yeah, definitely. That's really important advice.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

With

On marketing

SPEAKER_02 13:25

marketing, I know you can have struggles with all aspects of being an author because you know, we all get into this, we're mostly introverts, we like sitting at the computer and working with words, and then you've got to be good at marketing and you've got to be good at public speaking and these other things that kind of go against our deep desire of why we started. Yeah. So, how do you find navigating the dodgy marketers or you know, forcing yourself to do things that make you uncomfortable?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, so to be honest, the public speaking bit doesn't stress me too much because I had to do so much of that in my professional life. I had to do briefings to, you know, ministers, I had to head head up at Senate estimates, I had to do all that sort of stuff. So I got very practice at it during my professional life. So that doesn't really worry me as much. I think the thing that I find difficult is dealing with the marketers. So I've had a couple of funny ones. So I had one that came to me and said, I'm from the Oprah Winfrey Book Club. And your your novel has been picked by us and by Oprah personally, and she would like to feature it. Here you go, blah, blah, blah. And I was just like, really? Come on, you know. And then I had another one, which this was actually quite disturbing, and I contacted the organisation who they were pretending they were from. So they were pretending they were from a community radio station in Sydney who wanted to feature bad people and have a conversation and do all this stuff. It would only cost me this much, but because they're not profit, they have to ask for money, and da da da. And I just went, mm-hmm. So I Googled the Googled the play, the thing. Yes, it was a real station. I then Googled the name of the person, couldn't find them anywhere on the website. And then I contacted the place, I emailed them and said, Look, I've received this. I think it's shonky. And if it is, you should know about it because they're using your name to try and fleece authors of money. And they came back going, Yes, we are aware of it, and it's really disgusting. And thank you for you know being aware of it and not jumping on board and you know, we're doing what we can, but we don't really know what we can do. That's scary. It's really scary, and it was really that one was really professionally written, you know. So you can often tell, like I even sometimes get ones that say dear and then in brackets author. And you go, yeah, yeah, good job. Yeah, you're doing well. So yeah, I I'm very suspicious of book marketers.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

That sounds like a good idea for a novel. You might have to jot that one down. I think you'll do it well.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

But I can put it in the series, I'll call it bad marketers.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. If you write anything down, you've got to share it with me, okay?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

I will, I will, I will.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

All right, let's get back on track. So you blogged

Post-publication day blues

SPEAKER_02 16:27

about having post-publication day blues, and I love when authors speak honestly about the realities of the industry. So what advice do you have for authors facing their publication day?

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Just be prepared that you will hit a bit of a low. So I liken getting a novel published to a marathon. So it's definitely not a sprint. I think we all know that, those of us who have who are writing one or have written them, you know, you have these phases, you have these stages where you're going, you feel like you're just, you know, you're just pushing uphill and you're struggling, you're struggling, and then you're coming back down and you gain a bit of momentum, and then you're back up again and you're down, and more like a roller coaster. But when you, you know, cross that finish line, you get to publication day, there's all this elation and there's all this, you know, like, yes, it's out there in the world, and every single person's going to love it. Everyone's going to talk about it, and yay, yeah, yay. And then, you know, pretty shortly after that, you sort of come, I did anyway, you come crashing down to reality and you go, okay, I'm back to normal life now, and I'm not focused on all these steps that just consumed me in the lead up to publication. You know, and you have launches and things like that, which are another little peak, but it's the reality, it's a bit like any huge major milestone. Once you get through that milestone, you do have a bit of a low patch, and and just be prepared for that. It's normal and just be kind to yourself. I was having a really low patch just after publication, and then I did a little market stall in my town on Easter Sunday, and I was overwhelmed by my local community coming up and chatting with me and people buying my book, and that you know, it sort of felt like a bit of a warm hug and a kick going.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

It's like when people get run down after a wedding or you know, a big event in your life.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah, so what I what I did do actually, I didn't say this in the blog because I did it after I wrote the blog. I make cupcakes for myself. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, and I sort of just went, This is I'm you know, I'm gonna celebrate that I've still got it out there, and you know, and I just said it's my cupcake moment, and I had that at home with my hubby.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

So yeah, well, I'm big on rewards. So I've got a group of writers together at the moment. We're doing draft through winter, and I've I kind of like nudged everyone, come up with a reward at the end, you know. It doesn't have to be anything big, like yeah, indulging in a cupcake. A lot of them are going to indulge in some froyo. Oh, yeah, because you know, the frozen ice cream stores now are amazing. You go there, like you swirl the flavors that you want, and then you like put on all the toppings, and it's such a treat.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yeah, so important to pick yourself up with any little thing like that when you need advice. So let's also talk about something that I love is when

Playlists

SPEAKER_02 19:23

a book comes with a playlist.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Yeah, I love a playlist. Often when I'm reading a book, I will put some music on softly in the background. And as I sort of start to get into the book and I get, you know, into the themes and the issues and the characters, I often will change the music I'm listening to to sort of match what I'm reading. So with Bad Country, I made playlists for both books. Bad country was very sort of atmospheric, very sort of iconically Australian, because it was very much about that connection of people and place. And then for bad people, it was much more a mix of sort of more contemporary and some indie music, which reflected the more musical interests of the main characters, particularly Laura and her love interests, Leon. And it also, so it's the bad people one is actually called Laura's playlist. So in the book, Leon creates a playlist for her, and the playlist for bad people sort of reflects a lot of the stuff that he would have put on there for her. And in the 80s, when my husband and I first started dating, we're at one point we're in different cities, and he used to sit there and, you know, in the old days, press record on the on the tape recorder from the stuff coming on the radio and then put it on a cassette and then mail it to me with a little letter. And so it was sort of a little bit of a homage to, you know, our old 80s, you know, creating a mixtape for each other. And yeah, there was sort of that, but I just I I do them though for to help me with character development, because I get into the heads of the characters about even the music they like, but also about you know, setting a mood for a reader. So if you put that playlist on in the background just softly in your reading, hopefully it sort of reinforces some of the things that you're sort of feeling as you read the book.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Yeah, so cool. Keep that up, please.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

So, what can we expect

What's next?

SPEAKER_01 21:11

from you next? Also, I mentioned that I'm working on Shame the Stars. So that's the standalone book out of the bad crime series that I'm hoping I'm I'm going very slowly with it, to be honest. Um because we're traveling a lot, it's hard to write, obviously, when you're on the road. And then we can get somewhere we're very excited and go and have a look at everything. So it's a bit hard to, I'm being very undisciplined, but I'm trying to sort of get myself back into it. Hoping that will be sometime next year that I might be able to get that one out. But there is more planned for the for the bad, what I call the bad crime series. So I see them as a series of duets. So the first two were sort of focused primarily on Laura, the next two would be on another main character. If you've read the book, you probably know who I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

Good, I approve.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Yeah, so that's I haven't got very far in in the third of the bad series, it's really just on paper at outline, but then I've started doing a little bit of research, but I'm really trying to focus on getting Shame the Stars out there. But it'll be interesting to see how people react to that because it's completely different.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

But it's a really important story that you need to write.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

It is, yeah. Yeah, and I want to do it sort of also for my dad and his family, and yeah, I just to get it out there. I think, like I said, it's not a memoir, but it will have definitely pieces of inspiration from my grandparents, and they were married for over 75 years.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Wow. Yeah. It sounds like a really special piece of writing. So enjoy the process of creating that. Yeah. And do share it when it's ready because it sounds like an amazing story.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Thank you so much for stopping in and chatting with me today. I know you've had to jump through a few hoops to get in front of a laptop, so I appreciate it. But it's just always a pleasure to chat. You're such a beautiful writing friend. So I wish you all the best.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

No, thank you, Kelly, and all the best with your writing. And if you need another beta reader, I'm always here.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Same here. Thank you. Okay, bye. Thank you for listening to this episode of Kelly's Writerly QA. If you'd like to know more about the podcast, visit Kellyscroy.com.